In partnership with CBSSports.com
Online Now 1631
Online now 317 Record: 9788 (12/4/2012)
The place for Tiger fans to talk football, basketball and recruiting
The place for Tiger fans to talk about everything Auburn and not!
Buy and sell your Auburn Tiger tickets here.
You have no favorite boards.
The most viewed topics.
The most replied to topics.
The most up-voted topics.
The most down-voted topics.
The most up-voted posters.
The most down-voted posters.
The most followed posters.
(All caps for emphasis, not yelling)
In Auburn's quest for a new coach, I've seen a pretty common goal....find someone that can compete with Nick Saban.
And that sounds good, and seems like a worthy goal...until you consider that Nick Saban wasn't "Nick Saban" when Alabama hired the actual Nick Saban in 2007.
In a post I made yesterday, there seemed to be quite a few responses to a particular portion of the post. It was the list of coaches that reminded us that the vast majority of "great" coaches become great AFTER they get to the particular job (the right place at the right time), that is just the right chemistry to propel a good coach into becoming a great coach.
Les Miles became great AFTER he got to LSU.
Bob Stoops became great AFTER he got to Oklahoma.
Jimmy Johnson became great AFTER he got to Miami.
Nick Saban became great AFTER he got to LSU.
Pete Carroll became great AFTER he got to USC.
Pat Dye became great AFTER he got to Auburn.
We have a tendency to take what we know NOW, in the present, and forget that we didn't know those things in the PAST. What I mean by that is that people like to pretend we should just do what Alabama did and go out and hire that next "great" coach, just like they did with Nick Saban.
The only problem is, Saban wasn't a "great" coach when Alabama hired him. Not by the standard that is applied to him today. He was good, probably even VERY good. But great? Not yet.
The fact is, when Alabama chose Nick Saban, they were essentially hiring "Tommy Tuberville".
Remember, Saban was hired for the 2007 season. He was being hired based primarily on his five seasons at LSU. Five seasons that included one very good season, a few others that were solid, but didn't even include back-to-back 10-win seasons. It was a roller coaster ride....similar to the one most Auburn fans persecuted Tuberville for having.
In case this premise sounds a bit looney, compare his five LSU seasons to the five seasons Tuberville had just wrapped up at Auburn (at the time Alabama chose Saban in 2007).
50-14 - Tuberville (.781 winning %)
48-16 - Saban (.750 winning %)
32-9 - Tuberville
30-12 - Saban
Record against teams with 8+ wins:
17-12 - Tuberville
14-13 - Saban
Record against teams with 10+ wins:
10-9 - Tuberville
6-9 - Saban
Record against winning teams:
21-14 - Tuberville
24-15 - Saban
Record against ranked teams:
12-11 - Tuberville
11-12 - Saban
Record against Top 10 teams:
6-6 - Tuberville
4-7 - Saban
At the time that Saban was hired, Saban's record at Michigan State and LSU was 82-40-1 (.670 winning %).
At the time that Saban was hired, Tuberville's record at Ole Miss and Auburn was 96-49-0 (.662 winning %).
At the time that Saban was hired, N. Saban had won 9 games 4 times in his career.
At the time that Saban was hired, Tuberville had won 9 games 5 times in his career.
At the time that Saban was hired, N. Saban's best season ever was 13-1.
At the time that Saban was hired, Tuberville's best season ever was 13-0.
At the time that Saban was hired, N. Saban's best three year stretch was 31-9 (17-7 in the SEC).
At the time that Saban was hired, Tuberville's best three year stretch was 33-5 (21-3 in the SEC).
At the time, Alabama wasn't hiring a guy that had demonstrated that he could string winning seasons and title opportunities together the way Bob Stoops, Pete Carroll, Jim Tressel, or Mack Brown had been doing. Those were the "great coaches" of the day in 2007....and Nick Saban was not on their level.
Instead, he was essentially identical to Tommy Tuberville at that point. In fact, he wasn't even their first choice. That honor belonged to Rich Rodriguez. "Rich Rod over Saban?!?! Are you crazy?". Well, that's just a reminder of who Saban was in 2007.
So what's the point?
Well, it's the same as it was yesterday. You just don't know who the next great coach is until AFTER they become great.
If a guy that had coached TEN years in the Big Ten and the SEC and had the resume of Tommy Tuberville could land in the right place at the right time and become arguably the next Bear Bryant, why can't a guy with the resume of Jimbo Fisher or Mike Riley or Larry Fedora do the same? (just random names)
Auburn presents a good opportunity for a good coach to become great. We'll just have to wait and see if the next guy can make that jump. But it's not gonna happen by finding the next "Saban". We'll have to hope we find the next "Tuberville" that can BECOME the next "Saban".
(and by "Saban", I mean a coach that wins lots of games, not an angry dwarf).
This post was edited by jadennis 17 months ago
Excellent analysis! Nice points!
Thanks for having the time and clarity to make my point for me and +1 for doing it.
I have contended from the time he was let go that it was a mistake and that he (Tuberville) should have been counciled and retained.
The mistake CTT made was that he panicked at the way Saban was recruiting and made moves out of desperation... hiring Tony Franklin and not allowing him to bring any asst's. Kind of reminds me of someone else (the Chiz).
Glad I'm not responsible for this mess... back to work!
Auburn...a family tradition since 1905
Not the angry dwarf? You gotta be kidding. Just kidding I always enjoy reading your post JD. Well thought out and on point.
Good info and I share in your thoughts., but wouldn't classify Dye as "great" coach. Very good but not great! No National Championships nor is his name recognized as one of the great coaches in college football history. (Except in Auburn)
As always, Jade, you confuse the issues with reason and facts!!! Thank you.
I agree with your post, but I disagree with the premise. Everytime someone says go get a Nick Saban like Alabama did it does not necessarily mean a coach that has won three national championships. Seriously, can anyone go out and hire a coach that has won three national championships. I myself want to hire a coach that can potentially have the success of Nick Saban or even Pat Dye. Alabama went and hired a bonafide football coach compared to Mike Shula. Hopefully, Auburn will hire a bonafide coach as well. One that can sustain success over a long period of time. When you hire a Chizik at 5-19 and throw out a name like Shawn Watson it puts fear in some of your fans that the PTB will somehow screw this up as Bama did with Dubose, Price and Shula.
Reality is there are no slam dunks in coaching these days, but if the due diligence is done you might have a chance to hire someone that becomes the next great coach we all want. The angst within us is what we do not want...JJ, TJ and CGC. For me I'll take Jimbo right now and take my chances.
This post was edited by horsetrainer23 17 months ago
If only Tuberville had spent more time coaching and recruiting instead of holding up fingers.......
And because Auburn men and women believe in these things, I believe in Auburn and love it.
-George Petrie (1945)
Great post jadennis.
Would everyone please refrain from quoting the op in long ass posts? It's a pain to keep scrolling down and down and down past the quote on mobile phones to read your reply. We know who you're responding to. Thanks.
That was a great post. +1 (more if i could)
Good points, but I think my premise would still be the same. Don't confuse my post for being an endorsement of hiring What's His Name Watson, or another 5-19 coach. I agree completely that we need to make the best hire we can....a guy that we feel gives us reason to believe he could become great at Auburn.
I'm not all that excited about Jimbo, but I also think he's a perfect example of people poo-pooing a perfectly good option based on the fact that he's lost a few games that he shouldn't have lost and hasn't won a title.
In other words....is his resume, as it stands today, really any different than what Saban's was in 2007....considering it took Saban TEN seasons to have a single great season, never having two really good ones in a row? Sure, he won a title in 2003, but we shouldn't forget that he lost AT HOME to a mediocre Florida team that year. Certainly not a game that LSU team had any business losing.
Anyway, I think your point is a good one, and I agree with it, I just think it also fits with the original premise. Let's just hope we get someone that at least has a CHANCE to become great.
WE COMING . WAR EAGLE !
that was my favorite thing about TT. One for the thumb!
Today is a great day to love Auburn, a little better than yesterday but not as good as tomorrow.
You left out how Tubbs and nicky are similar on the sidelines during gameday. One slaps his assistants in the face and the other slaps his players on the backside. While not entirely the same thing, the principle remains the same.
In all seriousness, you may have outdone yourself with this one JA. It may be your best work yet. Better than many many "professional" articles.
This is what it looks like when a man makes heaven
come out of his six string
Wow, that's a very well thought out, well laid out point. I enjoyed it. Thx
“I was joking with Coach (Chizik) last night,” Newton said. “I told him to go ahead get fitted for a ring. I really do have high expectation
May be the best post I have ever read on any blog ever!!
I would have to agree 100%. Plus you can always hire the good coach and it go south ex: rich rod from WVU to Michigan
This is for the Auburn Family and everyone who played here before we did. I love ya'll, War Eagle!' Nosa Equae 10/19/13 Kyle Field Texas A&M
247Sports In partnership with CBS Sports